Brazilian Ropes

[Summerrain]

Im posting this for Allen Glanville

We keep hearing about the damage the Brazilian bull rope is causing the bulls in the PBR yet nothing has ever been done about it. Every contractor you talk to gripes about this type of rope. I wonder if technology can test both ropes and see just how much pressure is applied to the bull and if there is a real difference, do something about it. If the riser is too tall revise it. Make a standard rope rule and all ropes must meet this criteria. I have nothing against the Brazilian bull riders; I only feel the bull is getting the short end of the stick. Another problem I see is the way the Brazilian rope is positioned on the bull. The riders put the handhold off to the side, when the rope is pulled tight the rope is right above the spine of the bull, the regular rope has a pad above the spine of the bull. You tell me, does this have any effect on the bull?

I also get tired of some saying if your bull’s not tough enough for the rope, keep him home. Every bulls is different, just look at Brett Farve just how many quarterbacks are as tough as him? If they were all that tough do you think the NFL would have made so many rules against hitting the quarterback? They made these rules to protect the player, so the game would always have the best out there playing ball, don’t we want the best bulls performing?

[BullHorne]

Uh Oh. This could be a long thread.

[Swinging C Cattle Co.]

Better watch what you say!!! Dale Lyons has been preaching this for some time and has been labeled a Racist by some for the very same thoughts.

:beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::smash:

[Loagan Helton]

any rope is gunna have alot of pressure when you have 5 guys pulling it till they cant pull anymore lol

[T S]

it is very sad to see a 1700 pound PBR bucking bull tip toeing across the pasture , barely able to get around , because he had so much rope pulled in him ... i dont care what country that you or your rope comes from :ack:

[joe shaw]

I agree with the guys above i rode with a reg rope for years but a always had a problem with getting hung up a buddy of mine got a new Brazilian rope tried it 2 or 3 times found he really didn't like it so i started using it for some reason the rope just fit me right and knock on wood i haven't been hung up since i do ride with it a little farther into my hand off center but i haven't pulled it any tighter than i did with the reg ropes i notice the Brazilians rely a more on strength and grit and less on balance and they hock more rope into the bulls but i think you put a reg rope in their hands they would pull them just as tight

[The Whit]

The biggest issue on the brazilian ropes is the size of the riser. I don't think the positioning is a big deal. The fact is it gets tighter on the bull than your hand. But not all brazilian ropes are bad. Some guys make them with a regular 3 finger gap

[wild bill]

Austin you are exactly correct. the rope is tighter on the bull than the riders hand and that makes a big difference!

[BigLRodeo]

There is no give when the rope is pulled backwards + it goes over the spine double. The PBR has came down on the brazillians some for their soaking cheating methods. I'm not a racist I just don't like cheaters & Ifeel a brazillian rope is cheating. We don't use basakerds ropes at my punkin rollings.

[born2fight]

The PBR has a rule that your bull rope must have a pad under the hand hold now all they need to do is look at what the rule was made for [not to protect the cowboys hand if it hurts the have the option to change something, but to pad the bulls spine] that rule doesnt do squat if there hand is down so far the pad is not over the spine this would help somewhat . But they are going to have to stadardize a riser so when you cut off the bulls blood your hand feels the same thing ..

P.S. give em he77 Dale !!!!!:boxing::ar15:

[yatahey]

Well OK

IMO, Austin Whit you are right the slack has the most to do with it. I can make a rope that is american that it takes 15 people to pull the rope.

I have mixed thoughts on this kinda rope. first they are a pain to braid. they are backwards to us americans that have never used them. the riser does not flex as much for the reason that you must make a riser in the rope instead of having a natural riser in such as the american rope.

The reason the rope is pulled farther into the hand side is because if you notice the ones who use this rope can get tipped into their hand and get back, the reason becasue the rope is helping them by the way of leverage from the rider to animal. the rider can push against the riser and get back to center. Also if they get away from their hand, then the farther the rope is into their hand then the more leverage you have to recover. An american rope you can not do that with, Why? becasue there is nothing there and the rope leaves you hanging into your hand and the people that use american ropes can fall away from there hand and recover. LAWS OF PHYSICS...

I personally feel the main thing is the amount of slack in the rope.

I have never used one and have no oppinion on riding with one these are just some things I know from making ropes....

this is JMO

[colts18]

I talked to a good friend that hauls to some of the big events and he told me that in the box probably wouldent be as bad but they soak em in the ally way and in the box. He said his bull came in the box and he grabed the rope and it was as tight on the bull as if there was a rider on him,we would have been beat to death by some of the contractors years ago for such a act.

[bullpen]

I do appreciate everyone's reply, but what about testing the rope and see just what is happening. If my memory serves me right Robbie Herrington said testing had been done and the results showed the rope was hurting the bulls, but again nothing ever came from it. Herrington was driven to this due to his great bull Dillinger being retired and latter died from his injury.:soapbox:

[Backedwhentheybucked]

It doesnt matter how "tough" a bull is, I heard a very wise old cowboy (Tom Dorrance) rub the tip of his thick leathered skinned finger and thumb together very softly and say "I can feel this" and have you noticed a fly land on a bull, they can feel that also. It has nothing to do w/being a tough.
Jan

[socattleco]

Hey Dale are they putting on the bullriding here in Wichita Falls this winter that you been bringing the bulls to for the past 3 years ?

[Gary]

Im posting this for Allen Glanville



I also get tired of some saying if your bull’s not tough enough for the rope, keep him home.
Allen, take notice that the that the people that say this, don't have any bulls in the PBR that are being soaked!

[Rafter J]

bullpen try this
get a wide rubber band that will fit on your arm without stretching much. stretch it out on a table as far as you can without breaking. then write "handle" in normal letters on the rubberband. now let the rubber band back to its original shape. slip the rubber band up your arm to its hairiest area and start to pull the rubberband (rope) tight with the area with (handle) wrote on it where you can see it as it tightens on your arm(the bull). keep pulling till the slack comes out and you can see the word handle like you originally wrote it.

I dont know if this is a great test of what it is like for a bull to have a brazillian rope pulled until the slack is out of it and i have never tried this theory so youll have to let me know how it turns out.

[Big Creek Ranch]

I don't say much on here but I will join in on this subject seeing that I am an American that rides with a Brazilian rope and have since I was 15 years old. Cody Lambert and I have talked a lot about the ropes and there limits. The limits they have created are: If a 4x4 can fit between the handle with out touching the rope is illegal, all Brazilian ropes most have a pad that extends past the bottom of the block and over the spin of the bull of the rider is fined, and all knots holding the pad on must be tied on the top side of the pad. I still believe a 4x4 is to much slack and have expressed my thoughts to Cody about this but he says that even some American ropes have that amount of slack, which I have seen for myself and he says thats as long as they aren't socking them its ok. And trust me I have had the punishment of pulling Mike Lee's rope, Brian Canter's rope, J.W. Harts rope and at Molala, OR this year he had me and Ross Coleman get a hold of it and I thought Ross and I both were going to crap our selves:ack: and finally told him that was all we could get and he still wanted more. I have also then pulled a lot of Brazilian ropes that I could pull by my self. But, there are the ones that just need to be burnt or thrown away you'll can pick. One thing about them though is a contractor doesn't have to worry about a bull being ruined because a rider is dragging along his side and can't get loose. Just my thoughts.

[Lostroh]

:yeahthat:Punishment of pulling Mike Lee's rope is right! haha, good one Austin

[Big Creek Ranch]

Well I knew it could only be labeled as punishment when the rope puller has to go see Dr. Tandy to check for a horneya or a pulled back muscle from the strain of pulling Mike's rope. It is always wise to go for the spoting job not the pulling job,lol.:speed_eek:

[BigLRodeo]

Austin I know that you are raising bulls just let 1 get acouple of those brazillian ropes in a row. I've seen a large #of good bulls ruined with those type ropes. These days most every1 pulls a lot of rope. The end deal is a brazillian rope hurts a bulls back. I don't blame anyone for using them they have alot of +s for the rider, no hangups, not getting kocked into your hand, no losing your rope.

[Backedwhentheybucked]

Well I knew it could only be labeled as punishment when the rope puller has to go see Dr. Tandy to check for a horneya or a pulled back muscle from the strain of pulling Mike's rope. It is always wise to go for the spoting job not the pulling job,lol.:speed_eek:

Hey Austin I think it's HERNIA, but thats OK your hooked phonics LOL
Jan:)

[Zip]

I don't say much on here but I will join in on this subject seeing that I am an American that rides with a Brazilian rope and have since I was 15 years old. Cody Lambert and I have talked a lot about the ropes and there limits. The limits they have created are: If a 4x4 can fit between the handle with out touching the rope is illegal, all Brazilian ropes most have a pad that extends past the bottom of the block and over the spin of the bull of the rider is fined, and all knots holding the pad on must be tied on the top side of the pad. I still believe a 4x4 is to much slack and have expressed my thoughts to Cody about this but he says that even some American ropes have that amount of slack, which I have seen for myself and he says thats as long as they aren't socking them its ok. And trust me I have had the punishment of pulling Mike Lee's rope, Brian Canter's rope, J.W. Harts rope and at Molala, OR this year he had me and Ross Coleman get a hold of it and I thought Ross and I both were going to crap our selves:ack: and finally told him that was all we could get and he still wanted more. I have also then pulled a lot of Brazilian ropes that I could pull by my self. But, there are the ones that just need to be burnt or thrown away you'll can pick. One thing about them though is a contractor doesn't have to worry about a bull being ruined because a rider is dragging along his side and can't get loose. Just my thoughts.

Enough slack for a 4x4 is a LOT of slack. However, I used to order ropes with more rise than usual (4 fingers), reason being I had a large hand and rode with a fairly loose rope. With the extra rise I could pull a rope just tight enough not to slip - which is what I was shooting for - without it being very tight on my hand. I always thought that pulling a rope really tight tended to get the rope yanked out of my hand. I'm a larger guy - about the size of Cory Melton, so smaller guys may feel differently. But I almost never lost my rope and got on a good many bulls that were capable of taking it.

I think if you limit the rise in the handhold too much, it may hurt guys that ride with a looser rope, if there are any of those type of guys left...

[bullpen]

Austin, I know about the amount of rope Mike is useing now, I also see how many times the rope is jerked out of his hand now. I think Mike should return to his old way of riding, he sure coverd more bulls back then. I also appreciate your honest reply on how many are pulling way too much rope. I still feel we should also remember the effect all this is having on the bull.
Maybe they should allow hooking the knotts, if what they want, is more bulls ridden. At least this will only hurt the rider not the bull.:oopz:

[Gary]

Hey Austin I think it's HERNIA, but thats OK your hooked phonics LOL
Jan:)

Jan, isn't that,"hooked on phonics";)

[Big Creek Ranch]

Hey what can I say I never was very good at spelling contests, lol. Dale I think if you and I could ever sit down and talk we may see alot alike. It has been a while since I seen you at Checotah's arena. And yes, I do agree probably 95% of the Brazilian ropes do hurt the bulls more then a regular rope. I believe thats why with us raising bulls and me using a Brazilian rope I understand both sides and I try to take extra precautions on how my rope is built so that I don't have to pull as much rope and I have a good pad under my block, and believe me I do wish they would make more rules on these ropes It makes me sick to see a rope with a 2 foot handle, and a riser tall enough for me to fit threw, and I do give alot of the Brazilians that I'm friends with heck about them; ropes like that yes do ruin and hurt bulls.

[bullagent]

The next time the PBR is on TV, watch when they zoom in on a Brazilian pulling his rope. Most of the time the padding ends before the bulls spine. Wonder how much PSI that is. I wish the PBR would put an end to this way of cheating.:banghead::banghead:

[BYSTROM BUCKIN' BULLZ]

Allan Glanville, I'm glad you started this topic because I know first hand
what you are saying. At the PBR Canada finals in Calgary a couple of weeks ago I had the luck of drawing Edini all three days. I thought my bulls had seen some rope until then. Within 24 hours of each performance each of these bulls didn't seem right. They weren't content, loss of appitite and didn't seem to move the way they ought to when we were sorting for the next perf. Up here we give our bulls cyropractic adjustments 2-3 times a year or when needed or before a big event or long road trip. All my bulls were checked and adjusted before the finals. Upon arriving home I checked the three bulls. Their backs were all out in the same spots and there was some swelling right where the rope was. Is this a coincidence? One guy, three bulls. I think not. I will say, that he did not soak the bulls nor did he take forever in the chute, but the way the rope pulls down on the back of a bull it's no wonder their backs were out.
John Bystrom

[Hotflash]

This has been an excellent post. The kind that is very informational. I appreciate all the input from the breeders and the riders. It's the type of post that educates us newbies, and it's not just a bashing session. Thanks guys keep these type of topics coming. I wonder how many breeders are using chriopractic therapy on their injuried bulls. How available is around the country? I do know it is being used a lot in the racehorse and sportshorse industry.

[Summerrain]

This is a good post and one that concerns so many contractors and breeders.
Why cant they have a standard rope that all riders use. In any other sport, they have standard equipment that is required to be used.

[bullpen]

John, it's no coincidence all your bulls were feeling some effect from this rider, it happens all the time. I would like to hear what you Chiropractor has to say about your bulls condition when he adjusts him.
Wilfong where are you when we need you on this subject? I do know many will not reply due to curcumstances, but I also know how they feel about all this.:pop: