Good Cows?

[The Pipe Doctor]

When starting out in the business on a limited amount of money what are your suggestions on your first cow purchase? Everyone says to start off with a good set of cows. What is considered good or what can you purchase just starting out on a small amount of money? How and what do you look for as far as a good cow and not worrying about getting culls? Just want to see some idea's and conversation on this. Thanks Junior.

[IdahoBullRider]

Depends on how much a limited amount of money is. I'd say if you were to budget between $1500- $2000 per head I'd go with about 3 head to start with.
I'd say a good cow is one with a strong maternal sense, one that has an attitude, but for the sake of one starting out on a budget, not one that will clear a fence the moment you look at her. :D Don't forget her color...maybe add a little hump behind her shoulders and some nice pokie horns. :D I've seen some breeders sell some of their older cows for a fair price and the only reason they were selling was to make room for the newer crop and/or the cow's bloodlines ran deep in the herd and they wanted to use her daughters and grandaughters to continue on her line.
Personally, I tend to look more at the commercial cattle as far as cows are concerned. I have seen some nice lookin, nice rodeo bred females but very few caught my eye as something that I'd like to build my herd on. I think some commercial cows crossed with the blue blooded bulls would make a nice outcross. I tend to look for the bigger boned, thicker type cows; not fat, just bigger.
But, One thing I've learned when raising livestock is when choosing cows and bulls, choose what you like and what you want. Go with yer gut, always worked for me. I don't think anyone on here would spend a couple grand for something that they didn't like or want. :D

[The Pipe Doctor]

Do you know of anyone selling good cows right now besides the auction sites?

[HGS]

Jr, you can go to about any web site. HS

[Summerrain]

Dale Lyons had some he was selling , good breeding, also Alex Naccarato selling some of his older cows. Think Ricky Northcutt had one they were selling. Sandy Lott had one with bull calf at side for sale with a good price she told me. :D

[Swinging C Cattle Co.]

A good cow is a cow that comes from a breeder or breeding program that has produced a high percentage of bulls that buck.(PBR,PRCA,CBR) If you have 200-300 cows you outa raise at least one or two bulls, but a breeder with 50-60 cows that has a 80% + bucking rate that is were you need to buy cows from. I guess we were really lucky in the fact that we paid an average of $900 a heifer for the cows we have,and they came from a very successful program,sired by a PBR superstar, of course that was in 2000 and 2002 and they had just been weened. At the right place at the right time!!! Buy smart is all I can tell you and make friends with people who have been in the bussiness a long time and that are successful. Learn all you can from them, If you can only afford 1 good cow you are better off than buying 5 sorry cows. A good cow eats the same amount of feed that a sorry cow does.

[Summerrain]

oh I think Tommy, aka Rattler might have some and also Dakota told me he might have some. Cort Richards has some heifers later in the summer I think. Might try Porter Bucking bulls also.

[Brian Gifford]

First and foremost is that they have to buck. Remember that champions don't necessarily raise champions. The bull business is showing that, the race horse business has proved that fact as well as the quarter horse business. Papers are paper.

Breeding is to be noted in my opinion but comes second. Sonny Linger said that when it comes to a bucking animal- first they have to buck then comes size and conformation and then you can consider breeding.

Great breeding programs prove that bucking animals run in family's. The one thing that programs have in common is that a select few sires are chosen and bred to every yr.

Again- in my opinion it's a hard thing to put together (a breeding program) when you are buying semen from many sires and changing things up every yr. Papers may look good but it's hard to tell what you have if a direction isn't made and lived with.

It may work different for different people but that's what's worked best for us. We've raised and purchased many animals over the yrs. and it could very well be completely different for other folks.

Besides the purchase price- it'll cost $500+ per yr/per head to run an animal. It may vary from region to region. That being said- we figure we get $2500/animal in each and every animal we raise by the time they are five.

Hope that helps.

[born2fight]

check your pm please

[Jennie Shippy]

Buy bred cows!! Or bred cows with calves at side is even better...you get 3 animals for one price. Everyones advice has been good......stick to what you can afford and bloodlines are nice but someone's foundation cows can be just as good and cheaper;)
We have several cows we started with that have produced us many good bulls and cows, but we just cant keep everything and we are going to let some of the cows go this year. All are good mommas, in good shape and have good bags, most of them arent even that old. Around 8-12 yrs. They will be bred to a son of White Sport Coat or a son of Spook. They start at $1500 to $4000 and we will make someone a nice pkg deal:)
God bless, Jen

[The Pipe Doctor]

Brian,
How are you gonna know if a three,four,five etc. year old cow bucks or bucked? Is this what you were meaning on your reply? Thanks Junior

[bkrodeoranch]

well i'll probably open a can of worms on this one,but I'm not afraid to stir the pot a might.......Do'nt be afraid of those culls if you know the reason they are being culled,no you do'nt want a cow that has had 3 legged calves or3 eyes but some guys cull cows for reasons that some of us would take a chance on.For instance,she may be a hard keeper and is too much trouble to keep weight on for a large operation,if you're just starting out and she has good blood I would take a chance on her because I feed my cows every day even on pasture and you could just give her a little more.If she has the blood but is just being culled because her calves have'nt bucked well,I would take a chance on her too.I know a guy that raises some racehorses,he had a mare that he bred year after year to high powered and high dollar studs,all the foals from these breedings could'nt outrun a pony so he sold her,CHEAP.The guy that bought her bred her to a stud that had good blood but not the greatest,the resulting foal ran out over $100,000.It's a matter of "nicks" and the 2nd owner found just the right one.This is just my opinion,this and $1.50 might buy ya a cup of coffee.O.K everyone I got my helmet on so go ahead and start throwing things at me:D

[sandy]

Marcia,
Thanks for letting this young man know about our cow/calf pair that we have for sale.!!
Jr., If you would like to talk about what we have for sale,just let us know. We have several nice bred cows for sale right now.Or if you prefer we have some yearling heifers that are exposed to a bull now. And most of them will fit in your budget or maybe below it on some. Give us a call and maybe we can help.
Thanks
Sandy

[born2fight]

I agree with bruce there is alot to what he said ,earlier this year i went down and watched the Glorys buck about 50 head of weanling heifers [their first time keep in mind] they culled some right then and there that did not have enough kick or action for them but would be an asset to a lot of breeding programs ,so you never know until you TRY!!! it just takes alot of time or alot of money ,I'm alittle short on one and a LOT short on the other

[Brian Gifford]

Brian,
How are you gonna know if a three,four,five etc. year old cow bucks or bucked? Is this what you were meaning on your reply? Thanks Junior

Our deal is a little different than most. We run our cattle out and kick a good bull out with them. The calves that had a lot of attitude were left alone until 3 or 4. Come up with some good ones that way that Marvin Brookman used to haul- Heck the Speck and some others.

Bought our Pacific Bell calf from Dan Russell, bred to him several yrs. running. We are now in the process of bucking those calves. Kicked the better 6 heifers out with Blender Head (traded some breeding on a paint stud we have).

Our cattle are wild and don't come in but a couple times a yr. Lucky to be able to keep them penned for very long. For that reason we haven't bucked the cows but we'll be culling all of them that haven't produced a calf that bucks.

If we buy anything on the cow end- they will get bucked before they are bred and run for yrs. As long as they have attitude and action we keep em.

I wouldn't breed anything that has characteristics that you don't want passed on to your cows but that's our approach and nothing more. There are those long shots/exceptions that do come about from time to time. For us- it's too expensive to gamble on a maybe. We need high percentage's of buckers.

We also are breeding for bucking bulls and not futurity bulls. That approach may also influence what you are doing. Bloodlines play more of a factor in the marketing. Our goal is to raise bulls that take the hauling and are around for many yrs.

It's very expensive when "maybe's" and long shots don't work out. It's also hard to miss a yr. with bad breeding and or crossing your cattle back the wrong direction.

Like another poster said- foundation herds are hard to pass up. Old school programs like Hal Burns, Don Dee and many others have been around/stood the test of time.

[swamp side rodeo]

mr howell my name is wayne stevens from michigan i believe you bought some jim dandy semen from me in the spring i sell a lot of animals for a few breeders the breeders i sell for have to be upstanding people with great morals and honest i have dealt with a lot of shady ones but 2 great programs stick out in my head because of the percentages of buckers versus non and these people know how to breed the right cow to the right bull which greatly increases the chances of getting a nice bucker or a great addition to your breeding program! with this being said mr john williams from the j-w ranch in maryland has over 500 head and is letting me sell 50 3&1 packages for them (john and sonny williams) these packages are selling for an average of $2,500 per set for that money you will get a cow 5-9 years old that will be a daughter of shock&awe (3 time pbr finals brother to 5x finals bull lawman,small dog,law dog and a son to bro bull demolition man) and some of these cows are out of #38 vegas unridden at 2002 finals he is a son of #100 superbull out of a dooms day sister. the cows will most likely have #4 cosmo calves at there side he is double bred -59 and the sire to super man and countersink both in top 12 at abbi classic finals and has some up and coming calves they will rock any classic standings and the cows are all garunteed vet checked before pickup to a rafter 7 bull (son of)chaos or brother to primetime i will have all the details this week with pictures and registration papers everything is registered and garuntee the breeding if your interested call me at 231-592-1525 and will send pics and pedigrees lots of the cows have already produced a son that is being hauled by the j-w to ibr-sebra-or pbr events these aint culls there just making room for upcoming bred heifers! i already have close to 20 sold !i do the talkin and paperwork and when you pay i set you up with john and after that you can pick them up or make arrangements to meet them at a pbr somewhere!i bought a 3&1 package at lynchburg virginia for $900 at a sale because the bull calf at her side was a good lookin dude that bull calf won me over $3,000 last year and was reserve bull of the year in the nbbs and i use his momma for a flush cow! just payin big money dont mean it will buck some of the buckinest dudes are because someone gave them a CHANCE!

[swamp side rodeo]

NOT TRYING TO SHOVE THEM ON ANYBODY I JUST WENT INTO WAY MORE DETAIL THAN NEEDED BUT THERE HERE IF IT HELPS YA OUT JR JUST REMEMBER MOST BIG BREEDERS STARTED WITH A LITTLE HERD TOO.ITS QUALITY NOT QUANITY I HOPE YA FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKIN FOR AND IF I CAN HELP YA CALL ME THANKS

[JeremyWillis]

Juinor,
We are selling a few more bred heifers this year and they are very reasonable.

They are sired by 524 Hard Snuff (3 X PBR FInals and 2 X NFR) & W29 Rapidacious (Own son of K66 Rapidfire).

They are out of daughters of Sky King(Wolfman Son), Skoals Best Bet, Strawberry Wine, Bo Kat, Shanghai, etc...

They are bred back to 442 Yesterdays Wine(PBR BFTS Bull) or 254 Priefert Tough(PRCA Bull and son of A6)

You can see some of them on our website below. Give me a call.

[Summerrain]

When I made a post a few weeks ago looking for heifers and cows, the response was unbeliveable. for those just starting out on a budget, they are out there! you can get started with some good foundation cows, it can be done. You may have to look and be patient, but they are out there, as you can see from this post, all the different ones available.
From everyone i have spoke to in this business, dont throw away your money when it comes to buying your foundation cows/heifers. get good ones. even if it means starting out with just one or 2, remember patience and your herd with grown. Jen made a good point , buying 3 in ones. look at the options out there, they can be found and good animals. SR:D

[BloydBuckingBulls]

Check out our sale page at www.bloydbuckingbulls.com

[Jennie Shippy]

check out www.shippyrodeobulls.com/sale
3 cows at a great price!!

[dennis c borba]

check out www.shippyrodeobulls.com/sale
3 cows at a great price!!

Please P M me I have 2 original Naccarato cows numbers AN26 black velvet and AN 31 BABE and they are producers!www.dennisborba.com
thank you
Dennis Borba
check out my bucking bull section