opinions on a dead cow

[GENASPALDING]

I know this will be long, so I'll spare you as much as I can. Had a cow with a 5 month old bull calf on her side get fever 105. took her to the vet on monday he gave her a shot of baytril and banamine. said watch her, took her back on wed. fever 106 gave her a couple more shots more banamine and sent her home. friday morning went out to feed before work and blood everywhere, shooting out of her rear end. loaded her up took her to another vet. he took some stool samples, gave her some tablets down her throat and said she would stop bleeding in about 3 days. in twenty four hours she was dead. I tried everything gave her gatorade, pedilite,syrup, she lost so much weight couldnt save her, it was a holiday and couldnt get anyone to come out. Vet gave us conflicting stories of what happened, both of them did, come to find out both clinics owned by the same guy!.. Just wondering if anyone has any opinion as to what could have happened to my cow?

thanks,
gena

[Sanders Rocking RJS]

Gosh, so sorry to hear Gena. If Summerrain was on here she'd have you some info in no time. I'll dig out my Merck vet book and see if I can find some info.

Again, so sorry. How's her calf doing?

Jamie

[spears]

A severe case of worms can cause alot of these signs and symptoms. How long was she down and not able to get up on her own? Was there any fowl odors coming from her mouth? I do know that most time if bantamine doesnt help at all then there is something serious going own. How is the rest of the herd? Watch them close. Chris Spears

[Caja Ranch]

I had a bull do that. Luckily I had just gotten home from vacation because my son inlaw never would have noticed. He caught something that totally killed everything in his stomach. He did the same thing you described but my vet had me pumping fluid into him right away. Your vet did what amounts to take an aspirin and call me in the morning. My bull loss hundreds of pounds but survived. I gave him lots of probios. I heard that they sometimes have to take the fluid out of another's stomach if need be.

[saddletramp]

HAVE YOUR VET TEST FOR Johnes disease!!!!!!! It's a wasting disease. When the first symptoms show, it doesn't take long before the animal dies. Either that or BVD.

find a new vet first.

[GENASPALDING]

had been wormed, they tested for the johnes disease. they said it was an anurizum. Gosh folks I dont know how to spell that, so hope you can figure out what I meant. Everyone else is doing great now, although they did seem a little under the weather for a few days, but they are all good now. She never really went down till the very end and it came really quick.

[Marshall]

If you want to know for sure , load her up take her to State Vet Lab . In all States they have lab services . Bet they can tell you better than us online wanabe vets .

[Rocking RF]

sounds like coccidiosis (sp) keep a good eye on the rest of them.

[van]

Gena, if you ever have a sick cow call Warren Dozier. Cell 668-6849.

[socattleco]

I woulnt spend any more money on her to find out for sure what the problem was .Death is just part of it when your in the cattle business.Last week i found one of my registered Angus bulls dead .He came up to feed 2 days earlier and was healthy as can be.The next 2 days he failed to come up so i went looking and found him dead.I paid a lot of money for him and he was only 4.But you just have to go on with your business and realize thats just part of it.Paying Money to find the cause of death wont bring them back.

[Marshall]

Shane , I agree for the most part . Don't think it cost a dime at State Lab , other than some TAX dollars and fuel to get them thare ? If you have serious problems knowing what caused it can save a guy lots of $$$$ .

[Rocking RF]

Knowledge is power, knowing what happened will help in the future.

[bittersweet]

had been wormed, they tested for the johnes disease. they said it was an anurizum. Gosh folks I dont know how to spell that, so hope you can figure out what I meant. Everyone else is doing great now, although they did seem a little under the weather for a few days, but they are all good now. She never really went down till the very end and it came really quick.

She just wasn't moving right. Looked her all over, didn't see a thing. Had our partner take a look today..saw a bit of blood by her rectum. Then found her stool and it had quite a bit of fresh blood in it. He's checking with the vet..but thought it might be like a hemeroid. I'm not so sure..just something about the way she was acting. Sorry about your loss but glad you posted..I'll watch her more closely than I had planned for sure.

As far as your cow goes, I would have thought she would have gone quick with an anuerism, maybe not?

[leb]

sounds like coccidiosis (sp) keep a good eye on the rest of them.

:iagree:, had a steer like that a few years ago, vet came out and placed med up his rectum, said it was cocidious {sp} cleared up in a day, was kinda costly tho

[GENASPALDING]

Karen, I thought the anurism thing was BS also, that is why I posted. wanted to see if something like this had happened to others. She was eating up till the last day, thought with the fluids we got down her she was going to make it, went inside to grab a heavier jacket, I had been staying with her in the barn, when I came back she was dead. I realize its part of the business, but we have only been doing this for 2 years, she was one of our first and she gave us a fantastic little bull, some days I dont think I can do this, I just get to attached, it hurts in the heart and the pocket book.

[Sanders Rocking RJS]

Gena do you mean aneurysm?

In the Merck vet book it indicates "An aneurysm is a vascular dilation caused by weakening....of blood vessels." Depending on how the Thrombosis began (whether bacterial, a break off of the thrombosis) evolving into an Embolus (foreign material, eg, bacteria, air, fat, etc is carried into the bloodstream. Thrombi and emboli can be septic or nonseptic; that's probably why your vet was trying antibiotics) and if the thrombi or emboli is left untreated results in the Aneurysm. Well how would any of us know if one of our cows have a thrombi or emboli???

So really there was nothing you could have done Gena if it was an aneurysm other than what you did.

Again, sorry for losing her. Like Sean said we never know when or why.

Oh, I did look at several different diseases and many of them indicated restlessness, not wanting to eat, chronic cough, weight loss.....there was one disease that indicated a cow would discharge a port-wine colored foamy urine.

Jamie

[socattleco]

If you get attached to easy then this occupation is going to be a hard go.I tell my kids name as many of them as want but remember most of them will end up with their heads cut off and on a hamburger bun.

[bittersweet]

Karen, I thought the anurism thing was BS also, that is why I posted. wanted to see if something like this had happened to others. She was eating up till the last day, thought with the fluids we got down her she was going to make it, went inside to grab a heavier jacket, I had been staying with her in the barn, when I came back she was dead. I realize its part of the business, but we have only been doing this for 2 years, she was one of our first and she gave us a fantastic little bull, some days I dont think I can do this, I just get to attached, it hurts in the heart and the pocket book.

the disease mentioned by Leb. Took me a minute to figure out the spelling but I looked it up on the internet..for both of us. Coccidiosis .. you might recognize the symptoms..but if this is what it is..we might need to do something more for the rest of our herd. The cause can be varied, stress, weather changes, feedlot, change in food.

I can understand your frustration, Gena. John and I have been at our 'project', Simmental cattle, then horses, then buckers for just under 5 years. It's hard to lose an animal..any animal. We no sooner got the cows than one prolapsed..what an experience. John and I had much different lives before we retired..clean fingernails and all. We didn't need to do this; we wanted to. We had partners that had experience but they dropped by..we did the 24/7 bit. Fortunately for our animals..we don't like losing anyone.

Can't thank you enough for posting..hang in there. I'll be keeping a good thought for you.

[bittersweet]

If you get attached to easy then this occupation is going to be a hard go.I tell my kids name as many of them as want but remember most of them will end up with their heads cut off and on a hamburger bun.

I don't even care to imagine what you might tell your children about their fate.

[Marshall]

Bittersweet , I tell mine the truth ! They will won't leave the world alive . Because Jesus died on a cross they can live in heaven . Death is part of living . Get over it . Them prolaps cows make good hamburger , try one .

[bittersweet]

Bittersweet , I tell mine the truth ! They will won't leave the world alive . Because Jesus died on a cross they can live in heaven . Death is part of living . Get over it . Them prolaps cows make good hamburger , try one .

I believe in the truth too..I just don't think you have to beat someone over the head with it..especially a kid.

You're wowing me with your insights, Marshall. Death is a part of living..you don't say. Prolapsed cows make good hamburger..I'm sure they might. But if I can help one recover..that's a pretty fair reward in itself.

Tell me, what chapter and verse teaches you to provoke?

[Rocking RF]

http://www.osuextra.okstate.edu/pdfs/F-9129web.pdf hope this helps

[Marshall]

I can't Quote many bible verses and far from a good Christian .
I didn't post to prevoke .
Why did you have bring the way people raise their children in to it ?
If I wow you with my insight you aint seen much .
Last them prolapses is easy to fix clean em up , sugar em up (to shrink em ) , push em back in , and hog ring and string em up . If their real bad save the vet cost , cut their head off , they make hamburger .

[socattleco]

Karen i make my living in the beef industry,i cant have my kids getting too attached to cattle i raise .I tell the truth to my kids that i raise cattle to put beef on the plate that they will be slaughtered.I do raise rodeo bulls but as a side trade. My main paycheck comes from being a Wheat farmer and a cattle raiser.My kids know where the come from and where they will end up .I dont want to sound harse or mean but if you get attached easy then you better find another hobby or occupation . We attend church on a regular basis and trust me my kids know their fate and what to believe in .But they also know that the cattle bissiness is what puts the food on the table and the gifts under the tree.

[Marshall]

:yeahthat: Shayne
:sarcasm: Waiting for you to enlighten us O Great One Bittersweet !
That I said to prevoke ! Over and Out

[Taxi]

Karen, you keep that cow that prolapsed and/or her offspring and you will have lots of practice at putting prolapses back in!!!!!!!!!!! Sale barn or butcher her, no second chances!!!! :speed_eek:

[bjoewhitney]

im with roy, if you catch one with cocciodios to late it is to late, but nuflor works good with banamine , in the vein, then make sure you have somr corrid to put in there water, if you cant do this get some rumensin mineral to put in there feed and that will knock all of it out, if you are interserted pm me and i can give you a number to a vet that can fix your problem, if one is a cocci animal the rest are exposed and you do not want that

[bittersweet]

Karen, you keep that cow that prolapsed and/or her offspring and you will have lots of practice at putting prolapses back in!!!!!!!!!!! Sale barn or butcher her, no second chances!!!! :speed_eek:

I do live in the real world. #71 was culled when the next cattle were taken to the salebarn because she was a bit older. We probably spent more time and money on her than we got back..but, she lived.

On the other hand, #80 was our first prolapse. We decided to give her another chance because it was her first calf..she's produced 2 healthy calves for us since, both with no assistance from us.

Not much in life is carved in stone..we deal with each situation as it comes. I've been told all sorts of stuff by vets and experienced cattlemen..some of which has been wrong. Like our heifer who had a calf but still acted like she was in labor..all of the old hands said, heifers 'almost never' have twins the first time around. You can put that notion to rest. We've listened but I've learned to trust my instincts as well.

An open mind in this business will get you farther down the road than assuming you know it all.

[Jason Eddy]

My opinion on dead cows...

...NEVER Breed to Dead Cows.

Jason Eddy
Sayre, OK
j.freno@hotmail.com

[Taxi]

:adore: After spending the last 40 years of my life making my living solely with cattle and horses, it's good to know your instincts are better than mine! :adore: :nana::nana:

[bittersweet]

:adore: After spending the last 40 years of my life making my living solely with cattle and horses, it's good to know your instincts are better than mine! :adore: :nana::nana:

"it's good to know your instincts are 'better than mine' " and are trying to put your words in my mouth. Am I to understand that you now know everything there is to know about cattle and horses?? I doubt if you're having much fun if you have run out of challenges..may as well cash it in.:pieface:

[Jason Eddy]

More info on dead cows...

1) They are easier to pick up with a loader if you use forks rather than a bucket.

2) If dragging them to the bone yard, tie the chain around their necks, not there feet.

3) If they sit up when you get them to the bone yard, make an 'x' from their ears to their eyes and press the barrel against it, pull the trigger.

4) Don't Breed to Dead Cows.

Jason Eddy
j.freno@hotmail.com
Sayre, OK

[Taxi]

"it's good to know your instincts are 'better than mine' " and are trying to put your words in my mouth. Am I to understand that you now know everything there is to know about cattle and horses?? I doubt if you're having much fun if you have run out of challenges..may as well cash it in.:pieface:

I've learned not to make the same mistake twice, since you kept that prolapsed cow, you have yet to learn that lesson!:winner:

[socattleco]

Theres a pretty good chance her calves if heifers will have the same problem.A Prolapse is a weakness in the lining and is Hereditary.

[bittersweet]

Theres a pretty good chance her calves if heifers will have the same problem.A Prolapse is a weakness in the lining and is Hereditary.

The first prolapse was a 1st time heifer..She has delivered 2 since, the first weighed 113#, and she had both of them without help.

The second prolapse was a cow that this was her 3rd or 4th calf..she had not had problems before..but, and you may not believe this, the calf she lost weighed 124#. We have a scale and the calf had been delivered for at least 12 hours when we weighed him..we knew he was big but we were shocked at the #. We culled her because we thought even though she survived, she may have suffered damage that would prevent her from breeding again.

We use bulls with good EPD's but haven't a clue how that happened. I guess it's like everything else on paper..sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[socattleco]

Just remember using the EDP's on your bullsis that just the bull, Some say as much as 75% of the TRAITS come from the Dam side.Maybe the dam had a high birthweight.Or her Daddy had a high birthweight or both had a high birthweight so that would sum up the big calf.:nana:

[bittersweet]

Just remember using the EDP's on your bullsis that just the bull, Some say as much as 75% of the TRAITS come from the Dam side.Maybe the dam had a high birthweight.Or her Daddy had a high birthweight or both had a high birthweight so that would sum up the big calf.:nana:

are aware of that. And we sat down with everybodies registration sheet and went over them several times..trying to match different traits to the two bulls we use. :yeahthat: I know it's hard for you guys to absorb..let alone accept..but you all aren't the only ones with functioning brain cells.

By the way..you might want to inform Taxi about what "Some say as much as 75% of the TRAITS come from the Dam side"..he seems to be under the impression that the cow is basically irrelevant.:yikes::pokeowned:

[Taxi]

Karen as usual you are wrong there! Every time I've dealt with a real idiot or problem, be it horse, bovine, or human, it can be traced back to the mother's side!~!!! :pokeowned::hurray::hurray:

[kansasdad]

I know this will be long, so I'll spare you as much as I can. Had a cow with a 5 month old bull calf on her side get fever 105. took her to the vet on monday he gave her a shot of baytril and banamine. said watch her, took her back on wed. fever 106 gave her a couple more shots more banamine and sent her home. friday morning went out to feed before work and blood everywhere, shooting out of her rear end. loaded her up took her to another vet. he took some stool samples, gave her some tablets down her throat and said she would stop bleeding in about 3 days. in twenty four hours she was dead. I tried everything gave her gatorade, pedilite,syrup, she lost so much weight couldnt save her, it was a holiday and couldnt get anyone to come out. Vet gave us conflicting stories of what happened, both of them did, come to find out both clinics owned by the same guy!.. Just wondering if anyone has any opinion as to what could have happened to my cow?

thanks,
gena

I'm no expert,but could your cow possibly have had hardware?Do you feed silage,because its real easy for small peices of wire or the barbs from wire to go through a chopper and be in the feed.The cow goes to eat and swallows her feed whole and sometimes ingests these small bits.Was she kind of humped up in her back?Also I'm guessing she went off feed?If it was hardware you can sometimes stick a magnet down them and they will evetually recover.Sorry to hear about your cow.

[BloydBuckingBulls]

Kelly, you stole my thunder. I was gonna say hardware disease. That would cause the bleeding and the high temp. Cut her open you might find some metal in there. Magnets are the deal. Put em in all of em. But it's funny, I almost read every disease a bovine can get in these posts. Only way to know is to cut her open.
It sucks to lose cattle. But, if your're in the livestock business, unfortunately you're in the deadstock business too. It's just a fact.
There sure are some thin skinned folks on the BC these days.

[bittersweet]

Karen as usual you are wrong there! Every time I've dealt with a real idiot or problem, be it horse, bovine, or human, it can be traced back to the mother's side!~!!! :pokeowned::hurray::hurray:

that sure is no way to disrespect your Mother and her family..just cause she produced one idiot,:pokeowned: doesn't mean it was her fault.:bonk: You were probably found abandoned and she took you in. Women are generally too kind for their own good..someone like me!:D

[Taxi]

:puke: I hope you didn't reproduce, that'd be cruel and unusual punishment for your offspring!:nopity:

[KEITH NABOURS]

:iagree: LMBFAO:rofl:

[bjoewhitney]

guys, lets simmer down, we are suppose to be helping some one, not bashing over our opinions. none of us is a vet or this page would have been done along time ago, cant we all just get along

[GENASPALDING]

To everyone who really tried to help I appreciate everone of your opinions and help. Its been a really hard time for me, but I realize that death happens in this business. Sorry, but it still hurts! You can call me thin skinned, stupid, need to get out of the business, or whatever you want, i dont really care. I do this not to get rich, cause it aint gonna happen, I do this for the love of the animals. I think they are wonderful, smart and intelligent animals. They give me more pleasure everyday than I could ever give them. I realize its a mans business, but you better watch out guys us women are in it to stay and we are not leaving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bittersweet]

To everyone who really tried to help I appreciate everone of your opinions and help. Its been a really hard time for me, but I realize that death happens in this business. Sorry, but it still hurts! You can call me thin skinned, stupid, need to get out of the business, or whatever you want, i dont really care. I do this not to get rich, cause it aint gonna happen, I do this for the love of the animals. I think they are wonderful, smart and intelligent animals. They give me more pleasure everyday than I could ever give them. I realize its a mans business, but you better watch out guys us women are in it to stay and we are not leaving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think it's just "a mans business" though, although there's some guys out there thinking it. I've spoken with a number of gentlemen (and, a few women) in this business who don't seem to mind that I'm a woman; and they have been very helpful in sharing their knowledge. And I appreciate that.

My Dad raised me and he was real old-school; but he respected everyone until they proved themselves unworthy..men and women alike. He never told me there was a limit to what I could do or be..But then, he was raised by a woman in the late 1800's, whose husband died young and left her with a farm and 9 young children. Grandma prospered as a farmer even though she never remarried. My great-grandparents were farmers when they left Austria and Switzerland in the mid 1800's. Being on the land and around animals is in my blood, even though it took me 60 years to get back to it. No one is going to tell me I don't belong here!

Neither my husband or myself are okay with losing an animal..not only are they of value and many of them we 'know'; but, I guess we wonder what we could have done that we didn't. You might call us 'sore' losers.

And we do eat them, wear them, sell them, breed them, buck them..but we also respect them. We are stewards!

[livestockconcepts]

Everyone has given some great possiblities, but the most overlooked death in cattle is clostridial infections. High Temps, blood dis-charges.Death usually within 24-48 hours. Even though this probably isn't the reason for the death, thought I'ld try to help if possible.

Couple of questions/thoughts;

1. After she died--did she swell up very fast(like she was in 100degree weather), or looked "full" or bloated?
2. If you touched the skin, did it feel crackely?
3. When was the last time she had been vaccinated with 7way/blacklet?

Another thought:
Nervous Cocci:

1. Did you observe her at all very "wide eyed", chargy, circling?
2. Did she have access to any type of wet gluten?

[JeremyWillis]

"Best thing you can do with death is ride off from it"

[dwatson]

i'd say coccidiosis or anaplasmosis.both are contagious

[BloydBuckingBulls]

someone was bored.........da gum, this post is almost a year old.

[M_Wilfong]

I think they are helpful. Thanks for posting that.

[billsummers]

Karen,
Thanks for reading my book on the effects of linebreeding in humans. My family has made it a life long decision, but often times it goes wrong, The case study of Taxi was obviously a chapter you found fascinating. Not many find him fascinatinating, but you nailed it. Congratulations, I admire your insight.

Gena,
You obviously inherited those traits from your Mother, that is a good thing.

P.S. Taxi, see what happens when you ignore your instincts and don't hibernate in the winter?

[bittersweet]

I haven't had a good fight yet this morning..:rofl:And, it's already 8:00 a.m.

Bill..I'm glad you clarified Taxi's status..guess I should lay off...or maybe not.:pieface:

Hey, Taxi Man..and Shayne..and Marshall..the old 'prolapsed' cow had another beautiful calf this year..on her own.:cigar: Lucky is lucky, I guess! But, I told her what you guys said and I'm thinking, she's succeeding to spite you guys! You know how females are, don't you??
:D